First response from Paraclete member, Rick Young:

Greetings Rand,

I am one the Paraclete Forum members. Lambert has shared with us your
e-mail exchange with him. It seemed to me that you sounded more like a
snotty nosed boy shouting out insults across the schoolyard rather than a
man bringing the good news of God's love. However, I was able to dig out a
few points from your tirade that I hope to address. In particular, I would
like to discuss your understanding of the gospel, God's love, and
predestination.

Your fundamental error is that you equate love with salvation. It is
possible to love someone without being able to give them what they need
because they will not accept it. Anyone involved with real people will
experience this on some level; I don't think anyone has a problem with this
concept. This is the gospel: that we are dead and yet we can have life if we
accept God's gift. It is a gift that we cannot earn. We only have to make
the choice to want life - this is why God implores Israel to "choose life."
The gospel is the good news that we can be forgiven and enter into life.
This is hope. Your message provides no hope to anyone: you are either Fated
to life or Fated to death and that is that. Where is the good news in that?
Why bother telling anyone anything? If people have a choice then it is good
news to for them to know that they can have life and they have the
opportunity to receive it.

I would like to elaborate on the Scriptural references to God "hating"
people. These references are a figure of speech to indicate the relative
sense of God's relationship with those in His family as opposed to those
outside of it. It is not used to indicate the opposite of love. We see this
same figure of speech used by Jesus in Luke 14:16 where He states:

"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and his
wife and his children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life,
he cannot be My disciple."

Compare this with Matt 10:37 and you will see that Jesus is using the figure
of speech of hyperbole. That is, the intention is a relative type of love.
We know that Jesus intended hyperbole here because He knew that the
Scriptures taught one to love you neighbor as yourself and the law of
honoring your parents (see Ex 20:12, Lev 19:3, Deut 5:16, Prov 23:22). In
our own experience we normally each have a special type of love for our own
family members such that, by comparison, we have a greater love for our
family members than non-family members. For example, we are more likely to
sacrifice a good part of a lifetime to send our own child to college than we
would a neighbor's child. We are more likely to care more intensely for our
sick family member than for a non-family member. This demonstrates the fact
that there is a particular love found within family relationships (called
"storge" in Greek) that God put into us to show us the special kind of love
He has for the members of His family. Now this does not mean that we do not
love our neighbors ("phileo" would be the Greek word that would apply in
this circumstance); it only shows that family members have a special love
that does not exist to the same extent outside of the family. But there is
another Greek word for love. This word is unique and finds its first
occurrence in the writings of the New Testament. This word is "agape." It is
the unique love of God of which the other types of loves (Greek: storge,
phileo, and eros) are only shadows of. C.S. Lewis' goes into a complete
discussion of these four types of love that the Greek language expresses in
his book The Four Loves. Hence, the point then is that we have a precedent
for "hate" being used as hyperbole to indicate type of love and not the
opposite of love and we see from our own day-today experience a special type
of love among family members. We can thus conclude that God's love for all
humanity is in the realm of agape, though He has a special love for His
family members; this special type of love is reflected in our human family
experience and is expressed by the Greek word "storge." The hyperbole of
"hate" is used to express the more intense love God has for His family
members and not to express God's non-love for those who reject His offer of
life.

The Bible tells us that:

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did
not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might
be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not
believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of
the only begotten Son of God." (Jn 3:16-18).

And,

"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet
sinners, Christ died for us." (Rom 5:8)

But I John 2:2 is very decisive:

“[Christ] Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only,
but also for those of the whole world.”

Here are what various commentators have to say about I John 2:2...........”

Third Response from Lambert Dolphin:

Dear Mr. Rand Winburn,

Thank you for inviting us to comment further on our previous criticisms of your ministry. Your last reply indicates to me that you have read through the Bible and consider it authoritative for all matters of doctrine and conduct for the Christian.

I took the opportunity of reviewing your web site a bit further last night. Your graphics are certainly outstanding--well above average.

I had several thoughts. May I share them? Suppose Billy Graham, Hank Hannegraaf, the current Pope, and one or two of us Paraclete Forum members, actually do to have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ? Based on your greater maturity in matters of doctrine, this subgroup would then be classed as "weaker brethren." If this were the case then does not Paul's word in Romans apply?

Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God; for it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God." So each of us shall give account of himself to God. Then let us no more pass judgment on one another, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. (14:10-13)

Should you not then be approaching us weaker brethren gently with a desire to correct us and help us see the truth more clearly? If God is the one who justifies, who is there to condemn?

I know quite a few dear people who are in the Catholic Church, or were at one time. I am eager to build them up in the knowledge of the Word of God whenever I can. I have not found it helpful in most cases to condemn their institution. The same charges of corruption can be levelled at many of the Protestant churches as well.

In our area the manager of Family Radio network, Mr. Harold Camping, is teaching that the age of the church has in fact now ended. Christians should resign from the church since every church has departed so far from truth that God has now removed all the "lampstands." Mr. Camping does not tell us what God has done to replace the church. If I were to leave the Catholic church, for example, where would I go in this age of widespread apostasy on all sides? Do you lead a church you would like me to join?

The Protestant Reformers did a fine job of correcting some of the things that were grossly wrong with the Roman Catholic Church. But the reformers did not go far enough, and they left obviously many topics unaddressed. Eschatology is one of the major areas the Reformers sadly neglected.

To touch briefly upon a few of the problems I see with your eschatology: The term "antichrist" can mean one who is opposed to Christ, or it can mean one who comes instead of Christ. Consider what Jesus said to His own people, the Jews, when they rejected Him: In John 5:43 "I have come in my Father's name, and you [Israel] do not receive me; if another [messiah] comes in his own name, him you [Jews] will receive." The final antichrist must therefore be a false Jewish Messiah whom the Jews in our day will embrace and receive as their long-awaited Maschiah.

Revelation chapter 13 clarifies this. There will be two powerful men on the world-stage at the close of this age, "the beast and the false prophet." The (first) beast described is in the line of the Caesars of old--a neo-Roman [European] political and military leader. He collaborates with the fake messiah in Jerusalem to set up a middle east peace called by Isaiah Israel's "covenant with death." This treaty will fail, leading the the final war in the Middle East.

Now consider Revelation 17: the woman, "mystery Babylon the great" -- the harlot church of the end time and the symbol also of world-wide economic/political corruption, rides on the back of the first beast. That is, the new European state will support the false church--but only for a brief season of history. Neither beast in Revelation 13 is descriptive of the false church.

This final apostasy all happens after the removal of the true church at the Rapture. The harlot church will be a coalesced union of all the apostasy in all the churches. The Catholic Church, which has roots in the Church of Thyatira, will certainly be the focal point for this final apostasy. However, right now Thyatira remains one of the legitimate "seven churches" --which are representative of all the churches of Christendom. By way or comparison, Scripture does not have much long-term commendation for the church of Sardis which church sprang from the Reformation.

Visitors to your web site who have updated their eschatology from the limited views of the Reformers will surely be aware that the Pope can not be the antichrist and that apostasy in the church is occurring in all branches, not merely among the Roman Catholics. So one should be even-handed in critiquing the visible, professing church, don't you think?

From your web site I can tell what you are against, but I can't tell what you are for--unless it is for your own opinions and superior intellect?

"Love covers a multitude of sins." It is not enough to quote a few Scriptures about love, which you did when you wrote us this week. If we don't live out truth in our daily lives, we are disqualified from speaking with any real authority. I see you as very self-righteous and arrogant--yet very naive about who God really is. It is very sad to see you making a fool of yourself. But of course that can be corrected if you are willing to experience God as your own refining fire.

Sincerely,

Lambert Dolphin

lambert@ldolphin.org

http://ldolphin.org/

___________________________________________________________________

My first response to Rick Young:

Dear Paraclete Forum Members:

Thank you for taking time out of your schedule to write an in-depth

answer to my charges of heresy on the part of the Paraclete Forum.

Please allow me to respond to your apology.

"I am one the Paraclete Forum members."

My response: Based on your errant understanding of salvation I would

expect no less. I am a member of the Body of Christ.

"Lambert has shared with us your e-mail exchange with him. It seemed

to me that you sounded more like a snotty nosed boy shouting out

insults across the schoolyard rather than a man bringing the good

news of God's love."

My response: What you view as insults, I view as defending the truth

and honor of Christ, giving earnest warnings and rebuke. Insults are

defined as to treat with insolence, indignity and contempt by word or

action; to make an attack or assault; to make little of; affect

offensively or deprecatively. In the minds of the Pharisees, Christ

unnerved them with insults the likes of which they had never

experienced. For this He deserved death. Yet He told them nothing but

truth, to their eternal damnation. He offended their high estimation

of themselves. Yet it was they who were offended by the truth and the

rock of offense. The true God, as well as the true way of salvation,

is offensive to the world. This is why Christ was crucified and why

He promises His disciples hatred and persecution by the false

religious, who are really of the world, serving the god of the world,

Satan.

Christ did not shout the Good News of God's universal love for every

human ever born. Instead, His first public sermon was met with hatred

and loathing by those in the synagogue, desiring Him to be cast off

the cliff to His death, (Luke 4:16-29). Are you more able preachers

than Christ? Perhaps, in your wisdom, you would have chosen a less

controversial Scripture on which to speak? John 3:16, perhaps? Christ

knew exactly what needed to be preached to whom. He exposed the

depravity, hatred, unbelief and pride within their religious, but

lost, hearts. The true Gospel is only Good News to the Elect who have

been given ears to hear and eyes to see. To the others who perish it

is the savor of death unto death.

"However, I was able to dig out a few points from your tirade that I

hope to address. In particular, I would like to discuss your

understanding of the gospel, God's love, and predestination."

My response: I eagerly await your shining 'light' on the subjects

essential to orthodox Christianity!

"Your fundamental error is that you equate love with salvation."

My response: Just when I thought I had heard it all, the Paraclete

Forum breaks new ground in heresy! It is with this inane,

blasphemous, Christ-slandering remark that I shall deal today. I

answer with Scripture alone.

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for

his friends.

Here Christ Himself equates His unsurpassed love for His disciples

with His atonement. His atonement on behalf of His intimate friends

is His great love for them in action. Their need for salvation is the

cause for His willingness to lay down His life. To teach the

distinction between love for His dear friends and the doctrine of the

atonement is unbiblical and anti-Christ. Christ's atonement is

inseparable from His love for His chosen Elect. He says so in plain

language a child could hear.

Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood.

Here John equates Christ's great love for His Church with His

atonement. Those whose sins are washed by His blood are the saved.

Washing their sins was an act of love on Christ's part. Shedding His

blood for the salvation of the saints in the 7 churches was the

result of His immense love for them. His love for them brought Him to

the cross. It was the motivating factor.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath

blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ

- according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the

world, that we should be holy and without blame before him - in love;

having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ

to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.

Here Paul equates the love of God the Father for the saints at

Ephesus with His predestinating them to adoption in His family by

means of the atoning, propitiatory death of Christ Jesus, in whom He

is well pleased. That the saints have been blessed with all things

necessary unto salvation is the outworking of the Father's great love

for them before they were born, choosing them before they had done

either good or evil. In fact, they were chosen in order that they

would become holy and righteous, not because they already were holy

and righteous. The reasons for choosing some over others is found

only in the Father's inscrutable will which it has not pleased Him to

reveal.

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that

whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting

life.

Here Jesus equates the unique love of the Father for man - a love

which is not bound by the physical nation of Israel only, but extends

worldwide - with the gift of the Savior, His unique and beloved Son.

That gift has conditions, however. In this case, faith in Christ

alone, whose work, merits and righteousness alone are to be trusted,

is necessary to escape perdition and gain eternal life. Praise be to

God, those conditions will assuredly be met by God who is both the

just and justifier. This is what Paul teaches in the Scripture above:

spiritual blessings such as repentance and faith are conditions

necessary for salvation. Good works, love of the brethren, hatred of

the world and perseverance unto the end are some examples of fruit necessary to prove to others one has eternal life - all of which are fulfilled by the Elect who are freely given these blessings and gifts having been

purchased for them by Christ at the cross. Once justified by faith

alone, the Elect will manifest the fruit which proves their Election

and certain salvation.

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that while we were yet

sinners, Christ died for us.

Paul is explaining grace to the Roman saints. By grace were they

saved. As sinners not one deserves grace and mercy. Yet the Father

gave Christ for their salvation. This He did out of love for them. Paul equates God's love with Christ's death on behalf of those who had once hated Him. God's love and His salvation through Christ are deliberately intertwined. To believe and teach otherwise is anti-Christ.

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved

us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together in

Christ, (by grace ye are saved).

Paul, once again, equates God's love for spiritually dead sinners

(who did not love Him) with His saving grace in Christ Jesus. Had

they first loved Him they would have grounds to boast. Had they risen

to life spiritually by their own power to accept Christ as their personal Savior they would have grounds to boast. It was God's merciful love for the once-dead Ephesian saints which motivated Him to regenerate and save them through the only Savior, Christ Jesus.

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and

gave himself for it.

With this proof text I rest my case. Paul now teaches the doctrine of

the mystery of Christ and the church. We discover that marriage on

earth has great significance in understanding the spiritual relationship of Christ with His Church, His Bride. He so loved the church that He sacrificed Himself for her. Greater love hath no husband for his wife. Just as a fleshly husband marries for love, so does Christ give Himself for His Bride whom He, too, will marry for love. To not understand or believe this essential Christian truth is to prove oneself to be without the Spirit of Truth.

Please respond, O wise Paraclete Forum members. I look nowhere but to

God's Word. Please do the same to prove me wrong. And please, do not

respond with vain analogies which emanate from your frail human minds

as did Rick when he stated:

"It is possible to love someone without being able to give them what they need because they will not accept it. Anyone involved with real people will experience this on some level; I don't think anyone has a problem with this concept."

The Bible teaches those whom God loves, He saves to the uttermost. Please do not make the error of believing your ways are God's ways, or that your thoughts are God's thoughts.

Defending the honor, work and merits of the Savior Christ Jesus

who cannot fail to save those whom He loves,